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Llama 3.2 Sparks Open‑Source Revolution

Key Points

  • The panel debated whether an open‑source AI model will surpass all proprietary offerings by 2025, with most guests confidently predicting a “yes.”
  • A major highlight was the launch of LLaMA 3.2, Meta’s newest open‑source model family that spans from 1 billion‑parameter lightweight versions up to much larger variants.
  • LLaMA 3.2 introduces three key advances: ultra‑light models tailored for IoT and edge use cases, integrated multimodal vision capabilities for tasks like image captioning, and expanded support for diverse deployment scenarios.
  • Throughout the discussion, the hosts emphasized the tension between AI’s growing computational demands and sustainability concerns, underscoring the importance of efficient, open‑source solutions.

Full Transcript

# Llama 3.2 Sparks Open‑Source Revolution **Source:** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnO6TD9LtPY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnO6TD9LtPY) **Duration:** 00:33:50 ## Summary - The panel debated whether an open‑source AI model will surpass all proprietary offerings by 2025, with most guests confidently predicting a “yes.” - A major highlight was the launch of LLaMA 3.2, Meta’s newest open‑source model family that spans from 1 billion‑parameter lightweight versions up to much larger variants. - LLaMA 3.2 introduces three key advances: ultra‑light models tailored for IoT and edge use cases, integrated multimodal vision capabilities for tasks like image captioning, and expanded support for diverse deployment scenarios. - Throughout the discussion, the hosts emphasized the tension between AI’s growing computational demands and sustainability concerns, underscoring the importance of efficient, open‑source solutions. ## Sections - [00:00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnO6TD9LtPY&t=0s) **Open‑Source AI Supremacy Forecast 2025** - A panel debates whether an open‑source model will outclass all proprietary AI systems by 2025, weighing predictions, sustainability, and energy trade‑offs. ## Full Transcript
0:00what comes next in open source if you 0:02just combine this recipe and map it to 0:05other models I'm expecting a lot of very 0:10powerful models because ai's prediction 0:12it's just pretty limited right I guess I 0:15might take a bit of issue where AI is 0:17fundamentally about prediction why 0:19exactly are people so excited about the 0:21use of AI in sustainable development so 0:24you can see how people are are trying to 0:26Wrangle how do I balance the computer 0:28that's needed versus how do you how do 0:31you look at the energy consumption all 0:33that and more on today's episode of 0:35mixture of 0:41experts I'm Tim Hong and I'm exhausted 0:44it's been another crazy week of news in 0:46artificial intelligence but we are 0:47joined today as we are every Friday by a 0:50worldclass panel of people to help us 0:52all sort it out Mario m is director of 0:55product management at Watson X AI sharne 0:58is senior partner Consulting on AI for 1:00US Canada and Latin America and Skyler 1:02Speakman is a senior research 1:05[Music] 1:08scientist so the way we're going to 1:10begin is what we've been doing for the 1:12last few episodes I think it's just a 1:13fun way to get started is to ask each of 1:15you a simple round the horn question for 1:18all the listeners uh the guests have not 1:20been prepped as to what this question 1:21will be so you'll be hearing their 1:23unvarnished instinctual response to a 1:26really difficult question so here's the 1:27question in 2025 a near a few months 1:30from now will there be an open- Source 1:33model that is absolutely better than any 1:35proprietary model on the market show bit 1:38yes or no it'll get 1:41close okay 1:43Skyler I'm sorry what no uh yes there 1:45will 1:46be great and Mariam what do you think 1:48and big yes okay whoa all right nice um 1:52very exciting well that's actually the 1:54lead in for our first segment today one 1:55of the big announcements of course is 1:57the release of llama 3.2 2:00um if you've been following the news or 2:02been living under a rock llama is the uh 2:05sort of best-in-class Open Source model 2:08uh that meta has been really helping to 2:09kind of um advance in the marketplace um 2:13and their release uh just earlier this 2:15week featured a large range of different 2:17models small ones big ones um and Mariam 2:21I understand you were involved actually 2:23in the release um do you want to tell us 2:24a little bit about kind of your 2:25experiences and how that was yes it's 2:27just so exciting to be part of that 2:29market moment on the first day when the 2:32models are released to the market it's 2:34available on the 2:36platform excitement just just it's just 2:38amazing yeah yeah I think from the 2:41outside one thing I think itd be helpful 2:42for our listeners to learn a little bit 2:44more about is what's different with 3.2 2:47release um you know is it just more open 2:49source uh what should we be paying 2:51attention to well there are really three 2:52things that they released U with 3.2 the 2:55first one is lightweight unlocking all 2:58the iot and age use cases with the 3:01release of llama um three billion and 1 3:04billion the second thing was the multi- 3:08model Vision support it's Imaging TT out 3:11you can think of uh unlocking use cases 3:14like image captioning chart 3:16interpretation uh visual Q&A on the 3:20images and the beauty of that is the way 3:22that they did it was they separated the 3:25image encoder from the large language 3:28encoder and trained that adopter in a 3:30way that now the model is not changed 3:34comparing to the 3.1 so it can be used 3:37as a dropping replacement for the 3:393.1 llama 11 billion and uh the um 70 3:44billion variants but the image encoder 3:48that is added to that now is going to 3:51enable the model to process image in and 3:54input out so that's the second thing and 3:56the third thing that released they 3:57released on the model side is the Llama 4:00guard for the vision like the safety of 4:03these multimodal models matters and they 4:05release the Lama guard that is also 4:07available in our platform for the 4:09customers yeah that's awesome so there's 4:11a lot to go through here um I think 4:13maybe to pick up on that first theme uh 4:15show bit I know you know the the drum 4:17you always beat when you come on mixture 4:19of experts is the models are going to 4:21get smaller and it's a good thing um do 4:23you want to talk a little bit about how 4:24this matters for people who are uh 4:26implementing this kind of stuff in the 4:27Enterprise yes so a lot of my clients we 4:29are deploying uh these small language 4:32models on device and quite a few times 4:34it's just because they don't have good 4:35internet access in the factory floor or 4:38people who are running around in the 4:39field things of that nature right so we 4:41have to do a lot of that computation on 4:42device especially if you're looking at 4:44our federal clients or manufacturing and 4:46so on so forth right in those cases for 4:48the last few months I've been super 4:50impressed by the momentum we have had in 4:52this AI space going towards much smaller 4:55more efficient models so in the 1 4:57billion to 2 and a half three billion 4:59parameter space we've seen a influx of a 5:02lot of models so I have been running uh 5:05Google's Gemma Apple's open Elm we've 5:08had Microsoft's 53.5 there' have been 5:10some amazing models have delivered quite 5:12a bit of value U we have from from meta 5:16now the one billion parameter model I 5:18was able to download that just before I 5:21took a flight so I was able to 5:22experiment for the next three hours with 5:24these small models and by the way I was 5:25looking at the meta Connect using our 5:28the Oculus glosses it was a completely 5:30experience being there life so I got I 5:33got a chance to go experiment with these 5:35models there are certain things that we 5:37do for our clients where we add another 5:39layer of some fine-tuning to these 5:40models and the fact that they are small 5:43and I can fine-tune them because they're 5:45open I'm able to deliver much higher 5:47accuracy with a much much smaller 5:49footprint I think that's where you get 5:51gold the return on investment you get 5:53from these small models that you can 5:55then fine tune and then run on device 5:57that opens up a whole lot of use cases 5:58for our clients if you've not been able 6:00to do if you're going and calling an API 6:02call back and forth yeah definitely and 6:05Skyler I guess this kind of response 6:07puts maybe your response to the round 6:08the horn question into context you know 6:10I think I was like are we going to have 6:12an open source model that's better than 6:14the best model in the world I guess kind 6:16of that's not what you think is exciting 6:17about this release right I feel like 6:19you're you're like chomping at the bit 6:20to talk about how great are if if they 6:22had come out with a 500 billion 6:24parameter model that would have been 6:27yeah for me but if they're emphasizing 6:29the three billion and 1 billion 6:30parameter space that gets me so excited 6:34because it's away from the bigger is 6:36better idea and that bigger is better 6:39idea has crowded out other really cool 6:41research problems that probably should 6:43have been worked on while people were 6:45scaling larger and larger and larger so 6:47to see a major player like meta come out 6:49and make some noise about a three 6:51billion 1 billion parameter model I 6:53think that's just some really 6:54outstanding work and in the larger 6:57context it also really shifts 7:00decision makers to not be gated behind 7:03the ones that have access to running a 7:05400 billion parameter model so I I think 7:08that type of that kind of power Dynamic 7:10if if open source is continually getting 7:12these smaller scales I I think that's 7:14just a really good direction so uh yeah 7:17kudos to that about llama coming out and 7:19saying one billion in three parameter 7:20space has is showing uh skills and and 7:25again being able to download right 7:27before you said you hopped on a plane I 7:28mean that type of thing um that's a 7:30really great direction to see these 7:32these types of foundation models going 7:34so there are a couple other things in 7:35this in the space as well the 128k 7:38window the context window that was 7:40pretty surprising to me for such a small 7:42siiz model why is it surprising yeah I 7:44think some folks might not actually have 7:45a familiarity there it's worth I think 7:47for them to hear that subtlety yeah yeah 7:49so the fact is you can put more context 7:51into that into that prom that you're 7:53asking right it's 7:55128,000 tokens I can pass in this 7:57context so if I'm looking at a whole 7:59email thread chain on device I can pass 8:02that in so that kind of a response or or 8:05eventually we'll start to see more 8:07models that can handle images and stuff 8:08too that are this small size currently 8:11the Pix Model 12 billion parameters or 8:14meta 11 billion those are the ones that 8:16are doing images but I'm very hopeful 8:18that soon we'll see more image 8:19capabilities come down to this two three 8:20billion parameter models as well so 8:22doing that on device when you're walking 8:24around taking a picture of uh equipment 8:26and saying what's wrong with this or 8:28what's the meter reading things that 8:29nature I'm I'm super excited as as the 8:31capabilities increase there are a few 8:33things that are lack that uh I would 8:35like to see come out in the future 8:37things like function calling being able 8:39to do like being able to create a plan 8:42and have more agentic flows between 8:44these smaller models I'm very excited 8:46about the future iterations of these 8:47models as well maram when you compare we 8:50have been working on granite models for 8:52a while and we've always has been 8:53focused on small models can you give you 8:55a perspective on the small model size 8:58what are you seeing has a good size like 9:007 billion to 2 billion what where do you 9:03see the great threshold of performance 9:04and size well it depends on the use case 9:07right if you have an iot or Ed use case 9:09the smaller the better but also the 9:12smaller the better in a case that like 9:14it has impact on the latency is faster 9:17it has impact on the energy consumption 9:20and carbon foodprint generation and it 9:22has impact on cost so if we can get the 9:25performance that we need for from a 9:27smaller model that's that's well suited 9:30for that use case but but the Skyler to 9:33your point what excites me about this 9:35release and the lightweight is the way 9:37that they achieved that lightweight 9:39models like if you look into the paper 9:41of how they did that they grabbed the 9:43Llama 8B and they structurally pruned it 9:48so it's like cutting cutting the network 9:50making it smaller but then they use the 9:53very large general purpose models the 9:55405b that they had as a teacher model 9:58for distill 10:00to to bridge that Gap if you just 10:03combine this 10:05recipe and map it to other models I'm 10:09expecting a lot of very powerful models 10:13coming to the market moving forward just 10:16with a combination of it distillation 10:17and pruning yeah for sure and I think 10:19one of the most interesting things is as 10:21it gets sort of cheaper and cheaper and 10:22more available I think we'll also see 10:24like lots of use cases right like so far 10:26we've been gated by how much investment 10:28you need to put into these models mod 10:29and how expensive they are to run but I 10:31think it's almost like as it becomes 10:33more accessible we'll also just see like 10:34well why not just plug a model in right 10:36like it'll end up being something that 10:37you can apply for all sorts of different 10:38applications that you know we would have 10:40thought it been like ridiculous to do a 10:41few years ago because it would have been 10:42too expensive to even think of doing hey 10:44Mariam just on on the latency part I was 10:47stunned I'm I'm in the flight I have a 10:49one bilon parameter model running it's 10:52giving me 2,000 tokens a second response 10:55that's like 1500 words is generating per 10:57second like that's the I want when I'm 11:00looking at a model on my phone 11:01responding like I I just I became a 11:03Believer when I saw that speed of the 11:05response the lency yeah the vision of 11:07view like on the plane with the goggles 11:08using a model I just like your your seat 11:10neighbor being like who's thisy playing 11:12with LM exactly I'm waiting for the new 11:16Airline documentation that come out that 11:18says please do not run llms on devices 11:21while the plane is in Flight you know 11:23like um so maram I guess before we move 11:26on to our next topic what comes next do 11:28you think like are we going to see more 11:29releases of this kind um is this going 11:32to be the big release for a while like 11:34what should we expect I'm expecting to 11:36see a lot of movement in open source and 11:38open Community listen the future of AI 11:41is open it gives really this openness 11:44drives Innovation and it gives you three 11:46things one making the technology 11:48accessible to a wider audience and when 11:51you open it up to a wider audience it 11:54gives you a chance to stress test your 11:57technology right so we can advance 11:59safety of these models together with the 12:01power of community it gives you an 12:04acceleration on Innovation and 12:06contribution back to building better 12:09models for different use cases so a 12:12combination of accessibility safety 12:14enhancement and acceleration in 12:16Innovation is what I'm expecting to see 12:18in the open community and because of 12:21that we are going to see a lot more 12:24powerful smaller models emerging in the 12:27next six months 12:28[Music] 12:33two researchers Arvin Nan and his 12:35collaborator SAS kapor came out with a 12:38book uh which was called AI snake oil um 12:42and it's basically the book adaptation 12:44of sort of a wildly successful substack 12:46they've been running for a while uh 12:47where they essentially kind of point out 12:49all the places where AI is being 12:51oversold overhyped or being deployed in 12:54ways that are um you know not 12:56necessarily like the best use of the 12:57technology um and what's so fun is Arvin 13:00you know took to the internet to 13:02basically say we're so confident of our 13:04arguments here that we want to put a 13:05bounty out if you think we're wrong on 13:07anything that we're arguing in this book 13:09um tell us right and we can we can put a 13:12bet on it right in two to five years and 13:14there are sort of argument is that like 13:16the kinds of critiques that they're 13:17pointing out about AI systems are things 13:19that don't have to do with like 13:21technological capabilities and have to 13:23do more with like what can we actually 13:25predict in the world so one of the 13:27things they say is you know AI really 13:29can't predict individual life outcomes 13:32or you know the success of cultural 13:34products like books and movies or things 13:36like pandemics right they're kind of 13:37arguing that like prediction can only do 13:39so go so far and AI is ultimately a 13:42prediction machine and so there's 13:44actually like kind of just so far this 13:47technology can go I think I just wanted 13:49to kind of first start there is like I'm 13:50curious if that group sort of buys that 13:52argument like you know do we think that 13:54this prediction thing is just limited in 13:56a certain way and that actually caps 13:58kind of what AI can be used for or 13:59should be used for um I guess Skylar 14:01maybe I'll throw it to you if you got 14:02any responses there I guess I might take 14:05a bit of issue where AI is fundamentally 14:08about 14:09prediction um I think the gains that we 14:11have seen recently on this idea of the 14:14Transformer being used to do the next 14:16token prediction in that sense yes but 14:21because it's able to do that next token 14:23prediction there are so many other use 14:25cases that are not prediction focused so 14:28it is it's this idea about yes we have 14:30to understand what this length of what 14:33this context of data is and underlying 14:36it that transform model does rely on 14:38that prediction but it is so much bigger 14:42than just prediction so I I would really 14:44probably take that issue that um 14:46prediction is very difficult um but the 14:49other Downstream tasks that you can do 14:52after that prediction task is is really 14:55what has probably moved this space 14:58forward so don't get too hung up on the 15:02prediction uh capabilities of a model 15:05yeah I'm I'm be the Skyler on that uh if 15:07you look into traditional ml prediction 15:09was key and all the use cases the 15:12majority of the use cases Enterprise use 15:14cases that we were using traditional ml4 15:17was a reflection of really prediction 15:19but then when it comes to generative AI 15:22the the the the prominent use cases 15:24productivity unlocks that it does which 15:27is a function of content generation code 15:30generation it it can be prediction in a 15:32sense as Skyler said like the next token 15:35but that's I don't think that's the 15:36prediction in the use case as a use case 15:39so for that reason I I I don't 100% 15:42agree that the prediction use case is 15:45the primary use case that AI is designed 15:47to deliver yeah that's actually very 15:49interesting I hadn't really thought 15:50about it like that um this has come up 15:52in some of the episodes we've done 15:53before but you know this is one of the 15:55debates I find most interesting is oh 15:57well at some point machine learning kind 15:59of diverge from computer science because 16:01the way you program a computer is quite 16:02different from the way that you you know 16:04test evaluate and F tuna model you're 16:06almost saying that actually there's even 16:08another distinction could be made which 16:09is basically this sort of like 16:11traditional machine learning if you will 16:13right we almost kind of diverge a little 16:14bit from like the kinds of concerns that 16:16we have in generative AI or whatever you 16:18want to call it but like this kind of 16:19current generation is almost so 16:21different in kind that there's almost 16:23like a different set of problems I don't 16:24know if that's kind of what you both are 16:26chasing after I do think there there is 16:29a Divergence away from classical machine 16:31learning you know uh take all of your 16:33decision trees your regressions all 16:35those pH and then generative AI those 16:37those have diverged and I'm trying to 16:40trying to keep up with it you know 16:41that's my my previous background was in 16:43the classical uh machine learning space 16:46and then man we're we're in for a wild 16:48ride on generative AI so uh Tim being a 16:50podcast let me just quickly recap uh the 16:53book I had uh I had the pleasure of 16:56listening to the audio book on the 16:57flight while I was hacking oh you did 16:59okay you did the homework I was in a 17:01very meta phase because I'm trying to 17:03hack something while I'm listening to 17:04this book on 17:05AI there the two authors are brilliant 17:09there are two of The 100 top influential 17:11people in AI according Time Magazine U 17:14there are five points they make in the 17:15book the first one is around making 17:17they're saying that AI predicts but 17:19doesn't truly understand the context uh 17:21there's the second point is around there 17:23are AI will reinforce our biases in 17:26areas like policy hiring things that 17:29nature uh third one is around you have 17:31got to be spe skeptical about anything 17:33that's blackbox AI solution the point 17:35that Mariam had just made about openness 17:37and that's the future Direction uh then 17:39you had there should be stricter 17:41regulations and accountability 17:42especially when an AI is making an 17:44outcome that could have an adverse 17:45impact elsewhere and uh ethics and 17:48ethics in AI has to be focused on Beyond 17:50just the technical capabilities that we 17:52are making right so none of these are 17:54ground baking statements that uh that 17:56we've not heard before but the very 17:58first one I think that's where Skyler 17:59started was AI is making predictions and 18:02in a lot of cases we expect a intern or 18:06a junior person to make a prediction 18:08look at a pattern and raise their hand 18:10when they see something that's not 18:11working my wife is a physician she spent 18:1414 years in medicine becoming a doctor 18:17right she does critical care lungs and 18:19sleep medicine she has a set of medical 18:22assistants Mas or nurse practitioners 18:24who are helping patients as well she 18:27expects them to raise their their hand 18:29when they see a pattern break here's the 18:32the stats that they've had from all 18:33their tests a patient comes to them and 18:35say hey something looks different here 18:37so all she's asking is recognize the 18:39pattern and call me as an expert I think 18:42that's where we should be with ai ai is 18:45augmenting us we should be very precise 18:47in saying pattern recognition is a good 18:49thing I want AI to do patterns and I 18:52think there's too much of a of a gap 18:55between pattern recognition and getting 18:56to the root cause analysis of being what 18:58caused this that causal modeling 19:00requires years of experience and I think 19:02that's the relationship I would like to 19:04have with our AI be able to find 19:07patterns and raise your hand come to me 19:08for expert advice so I think we're 19:10heading in a good direction the name of 19:13the book is very catchy but I think the 19:15points that they're making are pretty 19:16grounded in what we see in reality today 19:18yeah for sure and I think I think to 19:19pick up on that point I agree I 19:21mean I think that's kind of the dream of 19:23how this technology should be deployed 19:25you know I think part of their worry is 19:26that they feel like the the Market's not 19:28going to provide that right that there 19:30will be a tendency to be like yeah let's 19:32just implement the AI and it will do 19:33everything for us um and I guess maybe a 19:36question i' POS back to the group is 19:37like how do we do a good job fighting 19:39that right because I think sh I want to 19:40live in the world that you're describing 19:42um but I think a lot of people who are 19:44particularly getting used to the 19:45technology or new to the technology 19:47almost have a tendency to kind of apply 19:48it for that causal stuff which is 19:50actually where we kind of want to 19:51preserve the the human role um and so 19:54I'm curious like in people's 19:55conversations with you know friends and 19:57family and others like are there things 19:59that they've done to kind of like you 20:00know help to set level set with the 20:02technology properly I think an example 20:04that has come up with this in our 20:05conversation recently my parents were 20:07both teachers uh Public School teachers 20:10and we were talking about whether AI is 20:11going to replace teaching and uh similar 20:14to the healthcare ideas I would really 20:17like to see AI be very measured in 20:20education because there's a there's a 20:22there's got to be a human connection 20:23there that comes through um and so to to 20:26back off a little bit in into that that 20:29face similar to shit's analogy with the 20:31uh the medical situation about where we 20:34really see these specific roles and I I 20:36think an AI instructor would actually 20:39would be would be terrible I don't want 20:41that I don't wouldn't want that world 20:42but having AI being able to assist 20:44students and assist that interaction 20:46between a human teacher and the students 20:48I think that would be a really cool 20:50example of this where we'd want to pull 20:52back a little bit and not go full 20:55automation uh and and education probably 20:58in health as well I will push back a bit 21:00sker on the whole education piece I 21:02think if you follow Salman Khan doing 21:04Khan Academy Khan 21:06Migo I think the impact he's having 21:08surgically with AI he's figured out a 21:10good blend between teachers students and 21:13where AI becomes a co-pilot for them 21:16right so I think to your point of 21:17creating the human connection 100% my 21:19mom was was teacher as well growing up 21:22and unfortunately she was also the 21:24principal of my school so that did not 21:25go well with me but wait while you were 21:28at when I was at the school so oh my go 21:31unpunished but the fact that you can 21:34understand the nuances today a teacher 21:36is addressing 60 kids in a room and she 21:38has to go talk at the at the same level 21:41for each one of them so you can't adapt 21:43the training to people who have who have 21:46different come from different language 21:47backgrounds as an example right or there 21:49are certain sections in the book that 21:50some people will take longer to 21:52understand some will take short of time 21:53to understand right so I think adapting 21:55uh the teaching curriculum to that 21:57student AI can do a great job you can 21:59take people from MIT great phcs 22:02professors and you can take that course 22:04work and translate that in Canada for 22:06some person in a village in India right 22:09I think that I think a can play a very 22:10positive role and back to what Tim was 22:12saying we need your parents Skyler to 22:15tell us where AI should be augmenting 22:18like taking the same lesson and creating 22:20multiple flash cards and different 22:22adapting that lesson and things of that 22:23nature and there are lots of things that 22:25you can do with AI in that space of 22:27teaching too right so next week my 22:29parents will be on the podcast and uh 22:31we'll they'll uh we should definitely do 22:33a parents episode where it's just 22:34everybody's parents but none of the 22:35usual guest that would be so much fun 22:37from this I've learned I need to joke I 22:39need to check back in with KH Academy I 22:41think the last time I was there they 22:43were YouTube videos so I think maybe 22:45that space is really expanded I need to 22:46go check back into that yeah for sure 22:48it's cool yeah they're doing a lot of 22:49interesting 22:50[Music] 22:54experiments I want to make sure we get 22:56time for the last topic which is a 22:58really broad one um but I think it 22:59connects a bunch of stories that have 23:01kind of played out over the last few 23:02weeks uh and isn't really anything that 23:04we've covered in too much detail on 23:06mixture of experts in the past and the 23:08topic specifically is the relationship 23:10between general of AI and sustainability 23:13um this week was the UN General Assembly 23:15and it was very interesting to me that 23:16the US state department said we're going 23:18to bring a bunch of people together all 23:20the CEOs of all these companies to talk 23:21about how AI is going to be used for the 23:24sustainable development goals um and 23:26then similarly you know um IBM just 23:28released a paper fairly recently talking 23:30about some collaborations they've been 23:32doing with NASA specifically around 23:34predicting sort of climate and building 23:36climate models that are available um and 23:38I guess sh I want to turn to you because 23:39my understanding is actually you gave a 23:40talk or we're on a panel recently 23:42specifically on this topic I'm wondering 23:44if you can give our listeners sort of a 23:45sense of like how this sort of 23:47connection is evolving like using this 23:49technology for these types of really 23:51really big problems where you know I 23:53think uh as someone who hasn't really 23:54been as deep in the space I'm kind of 23:55like how does chat GPT help save the 23:57world uh I I'm not I know that's not the 23:59case but if you can give us a little bit 24:00more color on like how are people using 24:02this Tech in space absolutely and Tim um 24:04IBM does a lot of work in the space we 24:06have our own commitment to being carbon 24:09uh neutral by 2030 and we're doing a 24:12great job against that already uh this 24:15week I I spent a lot of time in New York 24:17with a lot of global leaders and like 24:19celebrities in the space and got very 24:21humbled by the kind of problems that 24:23everybody's dealing with so the the 24:25entire conversation is focused around AI 24:28can help solve some sustainability U 24:30goals for us and we need that compute 24:32power to be able to solve these gnarly 24:35problems right so making predictions on 24:36what happens to to climate all over the 24:40world at a very granular level how do 24:43you forecast what what events May happen 24:45and things that nature there's lot that 24:47happens in that space how do optimize 24:49the cost envelope of running businesses 24:51things that nature on the flip side you 24:54have a cost a climate and environmental 24:56cost that comes with running these 24:57models right to just give you a few data 24:59points if you ask chat GPD or massive 25:02model like that a question to go create 25:04something right it consumes a 500 mL 25:08bottle of water to answer that question 25:10right that's just the water consumption 25:11that goes behind these things just cool 25:13down centers and whatnot the data 25:15centers Bloomberg came up with the study 25:17all the data centers together uh would 25:20be the 17th largest country in energy 25:23consumption countries like Italy or um 25:27use more use less energy than the data 25:29centers do today in countries like 25:32Ireland Where they' Have Become a center 25:34where all these International Tech firms 25:35have all their data centers as well the 25:38data centers in in Ireland use 12% of 25:40the national energy consumption it's 25:42more than all the households combined 25:45right so you're starting to get to these 25:46numbers where if you look at any of 25:48these graphs of the energy consumption 25:50and then you see where we are today you 25:52get to a stage where companies like 25:53Microsoft are now partnering with 25:55nuclear reactors that things that would 25:57had melted down we're now trying to 25:59resurrect them so that they can power it 26:00was a Three Mile Island right which 26:02famously had some trouble you know a 26:04little while back so so you can see how 26:07people are are trying to Wrangle how do 26:09I balance the compute that's needed 26:11versus how do you how do you look at the 26:14energy consumption so my talk was 26:16about we have to be computationally 26:19responsible that was the title of the 26:21talk and we were talking about how do 26:22you figure out the right balance from 26:24the chip level all the way up to how do 26:25you end up using the models and uh and I 26:28was suggesting that like how you have 26:30cars that come with MP MPG miles per 26:33gallon sticker that one number somebody 26:35can look at and say yes this is what I'm 26:36doing when you're booking a flight I 26:38know the carbon emissions so I think as 26:40part of that we need to be very 26:42conscious about if I'm using chat GPD as 26:44a calculator to add two numbers versus 26:47using the actual calculator there's a 26:48huge Delta between what and we'll get 26:50the answer wrong exactly right yeah I 26:53think there are some really good use 26:55cases of where AI has been helping 26:56augment we do a lot of work with with uh 26:59with forestation we look at how how how 27:02land use has increased we are predicting 27:05catastrophic events with with 27:07governments all across the world we're 27:08trying to to help them with wild 27:11wildfires and stuff like that so I'm 27:12overall very impressed with how IBM has 27:15taken a position on sustainability using 27:17AI for good and we are super focused on 27:20smaller models energy efficient all the 27:22way down to how do we optimize our 27:24compute and this is also part of our 27:26whole AI alliance with and all the other 27:29companies where we are collectively 27:30trying to reduce the threshold required 27:32to go Implement AI across the world 27:34especially in Africa in parts of Europe 27:37and Asia and things of that nature as 27:39well show but I I like that bottle of 27:41water analogy um there was a paper came 27:44out from signal and hugging face just 27:46this last week and it was on 27:48sustainability and um the energy that's 27:50being used here and one of the units of 27:52analysis they used is how many cell 27:54phone 27:55charges this thing the aquari would use 27:57and highest was image generation and 27:59we're approaching a query to an image 28:01generating model is getting close to a 28:04cell phone's overnight charge and I just 28:07I just really liked that kind of unit of 28:09analysis because it brings it home so 28:10much more about okay I put in that query 28:13for an image generation and now I have 28:14to think about that's the power of a 28:16cell phone for you a day or two uh so I 28:19think it's really cool to try to maybe 28:22think about more creative metrics that 28:24we can present this to the world about 28:25just how power hungry or water thirsty 28:29these these models are otherwise I see 28:31Millow mowatt hours I'm not I'm not an 28:34electrical engineer uh and it I don't 28:36really appreciate it but you tell me how 28:37many you know bottles of water it is or 28:39how many um cell phone charges and and 28:42it clicks so uh yeah yeah that's 28:45interesting would you want it to be like 28:46metered so like as you're you know 28:48you're using Claude or something and 28:49it's like here's how much power you've 28:51you know used yeah yeah um that would be 28:53that would be really useful Mar we've 28:55done a lot of work with granite models 28:57with three and we open sourced them do 28:59you want to share with the audience what 29:01we're doing with our Granite models with 29:03granite we are focusing on the smaller 29:05model um for the exact same reason that 29:08you mentioned like let me let me just 29:09share some data points if you look into 29:12a five hosting a 500 billion large 29:16language model on A1 100s roughly you 29:19need 16 A1 100s for that hosting if you 29:23look into a 20 billion models parameter 29:27model just one single A1 100 so the API 29:30call that you send to a 20 billion model 29:33versus a 500 billion model is 29:3616x more energy efficient just because 29:40it's 16 times less GPU just ignoring all 29:43the cost and latency and all the other 29:45concerns just for 29:47sustainability because of this what we 29:49see in the market emerging is looking 29:53into the smallest model that makes sense 29:58and customize that on their proprietary 30:01data that's the data about their users 30:03that's the domain specific data to 30:05create something differentiated that 30:07delivers the performance that they need 30:09on a Target use case for a fraction of 30:12the cost and by cost I mean cost in 30:14terms of energy carbon footprint and 30:17everything together that's the guiding 30:19principles for granite like we've been 30:21focusing on a smaller Enterprise ready 30:24models that are rooted in value and 30:27Trust and allow our company the 30:29companies to use their own data on 30:33granite to make the custom model if you 30:36look into our Granite custom uh the open 30:38source models they are released under a 30:41Apache Apache 2.0 license what it gives 30:45Enterprises is the freedom and 30:47flexibility to customize those models 30:49for their own commercial purposes with 30:52no 30:52restriction which is really the power of 30:55granite I love that and Mariam U the 30:58this week we also released our prit Next 31:00Generation models for granite right and 31:02just to share with the audience we as 31:04IPM have been partnering with NASA and 31:06the problem we're trying to solve 31:08generally we have uh these machine 31:11learning models that make predictions on 31:12forecasting weather patterns and things 31:14of that nature right this is the first 31:16time it has ever been done where we have 31:18created a foundation model where a pixel 31:21where square inch or of the of the earth 31:24we're using those as tokens we're trying 31:26to predict what will happen next right 31:27in soad using text so we have built this 31:29Foundation model that combines weather 31:31data and climate data together in one 31:33model so in that model can then be 31:36adapted for various use cases in the 31:38current state we have things like if you 31:40want to do forecasting in Florida for 31:42for rainfall there'll be completely 31:44different model if you're trying to do 31:46deforestation somewhere else it'll be 31:47completely different model so the first 31:49time we have combined a model that can 31:51be easily adapted this like the 31:53foundation models that we've built and 31:55as mic drop open source is completely to 31:58the community so now you can go and take 32:00the these PR models from hugging face 32:03deploy them for the same model mult 32:05multiple things the next iteration where 32:07I think we will hopefully go this is 32:09starting to do what multimodal models 32:11did you used to have one model that 32:13detex one model that did image and then 32:15just like meta 3.2 billion 3.2 now we've 32:18combining the two together so the same 32:20model can do both of them I'm hoping 32:22that we'll come to that point with 32:23Foundation models for with weather and 32:25climate we can then start to connect 32:27what's happening in two different places 32:29the climate patterns are changing the 32:31forestation is changing it'll be able to 32:32think through and combine those two so 32:35we've made the first step towards a new 32:37future where Foundation models will be 32:39able to combine all of this data 32:41together and the same model can answer 32:43all of these questions exactly I got 32:44super excited about this the these 32:46models and also think about it 40 Years 32:49of NASA satellite images are at our 32:52fingerprint now with this models to use 32:56it for weather forecast 32:58um climate prediction seasonal 33:00prediction and use that to inform 33:02decisions for planning 33:04mitigations um for climate Andes that's 33:08exciting that's super exciting it's a 33:10great note to end on just because I 33:11think like both it's a model that's open 33:12source listeners you can go and download 33:14and play with it if you want it um and 33:17uh and I think it's a great application 33:18I think show I was talking about earlier 33:20like I think it's so useful to get 33:22Beyond simply like oh how does a chatbot 33:24save or gain sustainability there so all 33:26these other aspects in that I think 33:28people don't think about when this this 33:30topic tends to come 33:31up um well great everybody so that's all 33:34the time we have uh for today uh thanks 33:36for joining us uh if you enjoyed what 33:38you heard you can get us on Apple 33:39podcasts uh Spotify and podcast 33:42platforms everywhere uh show bit Skyler 33:44Mariam thanks for joining us and we hope 33:45to have you on uh sometime in the future