Ne-Yo Explores AI Music Ethics
Key Points
- The conversation frames AI as a powerful tool whose impact depends on how it’s applied, noting both its creative potential and ethical complexities.
- Grammy‑winning artist Ne‑Yo shares his long‑standing passion for video games, coding, and technology, explaining how these interests evolved from a therapeutic hobby into deeper technical involvement.
- Ne‑Yo emphasizes that he isn’t anti‑AI but wants clearer examples of its positive uses, highlighting his intrigue and cautious optimism about AI’s future role.
- He expresses unease about AI‑generated music that imitates his songwriting style and voice without his consent, underscoring concerns about personal ownership and misuse of generative AI.
Sections
- Ne‑Yo Discusses AI, Gaming, Creativity - The host introduces Grammy‑winning artist Ne‑Yo to explore how generative AI’s promise and ethical concerns intersect with his passion for video games and technology, which he uses as a creative therapy alongside his music career.
- AI Music Mimicry Raises Ethics - The speaker notes how convincingly AI can imitate an artist’s voice, compares the upcoming disruption to Napster’s impact, and urges proactive ethical and legal safeguards as AI reshapes song creation and collaboration.
- Ne-Yo Emphasizes Authentic Live Tour - Ne‑Yo assures fans his upcoming world tour will showcase his real, unaltered performances—no holograms or AI—while reflecting on his current views about artificial intelligence.
- VFX Veteran Reacts to AI - A seasoned visual‑effects professional expresses amazement at the emotional power of generative AI and deepfake technology, recounts his shift from traditional VFX work, and asks how such systems are built.
- Real-Time AI Performance & Deepfake Debate - The speaker explains AI‑driven live rendering in performance, condemns the loaded term “deepfake,” and reflects on the technology’s transformative potential alongside its ethical pitfalls.
- Ethics of AI-Generated Likenesses - A speaker reflects on two decades of creating CGI celebrity replicas, recalls a 2009 TED talk on the same ethical concerns, and argues that AI‑driven likenesses require fresh thinking and self‑regulation.
- Convincing Celebs to Trust AI - A speaker discusses the necessity of regulations and outlines how they persuade high‑profile actors such as Brad Pitt and Tom Hanks to safely adopt expensive AI likeness‑capture technology.
- Digital Disruption as Creative Fuel - The speaker discusses how the rise of CGI and game‑engine technology has transformed filmmaking—making half of movies computer‑generated, demanding massive teams and resources—yet frames these tools as a “jet‑fuel” amplifier that can boost artistic creativity rather than merely shortcut it.
- Navigating Ethics in Generative AI - The speaker reflects on the challenges of setting moral, legal, and artistic boundaries for AI‑generated digital personas, noting rapid technological change, evolving distribution models, and emerging business opportunities.
- AI Empowering Filmmakers' Vision - The speaker celebrates how emerging AI tools are unlocking creative potential for directors, production designers, and visual effects artists, rapidly reshaping the future of cinematic world‑building.
Full Transcript
# Ne-Yo Explores AI Music Ethics **Source:** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlAhUinl9o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlAhUinl9o) **Duration:** 00:30:17 ## Summary - The conversation frames AI as a powerful tool whose impact depends on how it’s applied, noting both its creative potential and ethical complexities. - Grammy‑winning artist Ne‑Yo shares his long‑standing passion for video games, coding, and technology, explaining how these interests evolved from a therapeutic hobby into deeper technical involvement. - Ne‑Yo emphasizes that he isn’t anti‑AI but wants clearer examples of its positive uses, highlighting his intrigue and cautious optimism about AI’s future role. - He expresses unease about AI‑generated music that imitates his songwriting style and voice without his consent, underscoring concerns about personal ownership and misuse of generative AI. ## Sections - [00:00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlAhUinl9o&t=0s) **Ne‑Yo Discusses AI, Gaming, Creativity** - The host introduces Grammy‑winning artist Ne‑Yo to explore how generative AI’s promise and ethical concerns intersect with his passion for video games and technology, which he uses as a creative therapy alongside his music career. - [00:03:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlAhUinl9o&t=183s) **AI Music Mimicry Raises Ethics** - The speaker notes how convincingly AI can imitate an artist’s voice, compares the upcoming disruption to Napster’s impact, and urges proactive ethical and legal safeguards as AI reshapes song creation and collaboration. - [00:06:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlAhUinl9o&t=366s) **Ne-Yo Emphasizes Authentic Live Tour** - Ne‑Yo assures fans his upcoming world tour will showcase his real, unaltered performances—no holograms or AI—while reflecting on his current views about artificial intelligence. - [00:09:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlAhUinl9o&t=552s) **VFX Veteran Reacts to AI** - A seasoned visual‑effects professional expresses amazement at the emotional power of generative AI and deepfake technology, recounts his shift from traditional VFX work, and asks how such systems are built. - [00:12:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlAhUinl9o&t=740s) **Real-Time AI Performance & Deepfake Debate** - The speaker explains AI‑driven live rendering in performance, condemns the loaded term “deepfake,” and reflects on the technology’s transformative potential alongside its ethical pitfalls. - [00:15:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlAhUinl9o&t=927s) **Ethics of AI-Generated Likenesses** - A speaker reflects on two decades of creating CGI celebrity replicas, recalls a 2009 TED talk on the same ethical concerns, and argues that AI‑driven likenesses require fresh thinking and self‑regulation. - [00:18:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlAhUinl9o&t=1114s) **Convincing Celebs to Trust AI** - A speaker discusses the necessity of regulations and outlines how they persuade high‑profile actors such as Brad Pitt and Tom Hanks to safely adopt expensive AI likeness‑capture technology. - [00:21:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlAhUinl9o&t=1304s) **Digital Disruption as Creative Fuel** - The speaker discusses how the rise of CGI and game‑engine technology has transformed filmmaking—making half of movies computer‑generated, demanding massive teams and resources—yet frames these tools as a “jet‑fuel” amplifier that can boost artistic creativity rather than merely shortcut it. - [00:24:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlAhUinl9o&t=1492s) **Navigating Ethics in Generative AI** - The speaker reflects on the challenges of setting moral, legal, and artistic boundaries for AI‑generated digital personas, noting rapid technological change, evolving distribution models, and emerging business opportunities. - [00:27:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlAhUinl9o&t=1673s) **AI Empowering Filmmakers' Vision** - The speaker celebrates how emerging AI tools are unlocking creative potential for directors, production designers, and visual effects artists, rapidly reshaping the future of cinematic world‑building. ## Full Transcript
I personally feel the AI situation is about what it's going to be used for.
You know, it's
I understand it's the future and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
And I'm not anti AI.
I just need someone to show me the positive aspects of this AI thing.
Generative AI offers great power, and the great unknown.
While being transported into new realms of creativity is awe-inspiring,
generative AI is also seen as an ethical minefield.
Today, we're talking about the amazing, uncanny, and sometimes eerie
world of unreal reality in music, film, and your daily scroll.
We're now extremely lucky
to be joined by three time Grammy Award winning hitmaker Ne-Yo.
Ne-Yo. Welcome.
How you doing, brother? Hey.
Well, look, one of the things that a lot of people
might not know about you
is that you've got a real passion for science and technology.
So please, let's jump into that.
I want to know where that comes from.
Well, it all starts with video games.
I've been a video game head for a really, really long time still am
to this day is actually my my, my therapy.
You know, when I need, when I need a break from the music industry.
Normally, you can find me somewhere with my PlayStation just doing that.
But, it started there, and then it started getting into the art
of creating video games.
And, you know, what it takes to to make the video games
look the way they look and things of that nature.
So it started there and then and then, you know, blossomed into more interest
in the behind the scenes work of
just what it is to create some of my favorite video games.
And then it goes deeper than that into coding and all of those things.
Actually, I invested in a coding school not too long ago,
just just out of sheer passion for the knowledge of it.
Yeah. So, so, yeah, that's that's where it starts.
Well, it sounds like if you're interested in something, you go all in
and you seem to take your passions and really turn that into something
even greater than yourself.
So let's pivot that to talking about AI some.
Let's start off with the positive about that.
What are you excited about in the space of AI?
I personally feel the AI situation is about what it's going to be used for.
You know, it's
I understand it's the future and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
And I'm not anti AI.
I just need someone to show me the positive aspects of this AI thing.
You know, it kind of what sparked this whole thing is when somebody showed me
an AI program
that could not only attempt to write a song in the style of Ne-Yo,
but then showed me another one they attempted to sing the song
using my voice, and that just, that just, that didn't fly with me.
I'm like, wait a minute.
No one sees this as a threat at all?
This doesn’t strike anybody is weird that there's a whole song here
written in my style, singing my voice, and I had nothing to do with it?
That's not weird to anybody else?
So, I mean, that's that's, you know, that's kind of where I sit with it.
Again, I'm waiting on someone to bring me the positive aspects of this whole
AI thing in regards to music creation and, and the music industry,
because as of right now, all I can kind of see is the red flags.
Now, again, I'm 100% open to someone
showing me the positive aspects of I just have yet to see them.
Quick question then,
when you did hear some of the songs that were created using this AI
in this form of Ne-Yo, in the styling of Ne-Yo, what’d you think?
Did it sound good?
It didn't sound bad.
No, it wasn't bad at all.
The worst part about it is that again, it was my voice
and a style similar to mine.
You know, it was...
a good impersonation, I’ll say.
It was a it was a very good impersonation.
But the reality is it wasn't me.
Well, then let's stay in this space for a moment,
because what you're talking about are really some true ethical
considerations that a lot of us have about AI.
So let's talk about some of those concerns.
You remember Napster and then iTunes, and then when Spotify came on in
and changed the music industry forever.
Is it possible that gen AI is just the next reset?
It's definitely possible.
And, I think that it would be smart
to get ahead of it as opposed to, you know, how it happened with Napster.
You know, where, it had to be the whole lawsuit thing.
And then all of a sudden that becomes the norm.
Yeah, it would be smart to get in front of it.
But, if AI is doing it all for you, what are you doing
as the human being like?
You know, nowadays,
I got a question every song that comes across the table, because it could be
it could be an AI that did it and it's like, okay,
am I working with this songwriter or am I working with this machine?
Again, great impersonations all day long.
Yeah, fantastic.
And that's great for, you know, the the fun element of it.
It's fun to listen to SpongeBob SquarePants sing a TI song.
Yeah. That's fun.
Let’s like imagine a world where artists can protect
or control their likeness while becoming still more efficient.
Do you think that there's a possibility you can use AI to write your songs
with you, and then you can go on vacation and then maybe, like, come back in
and check it and give it some notes and then craft it together.
To be completely honest, to me all that sounds like is artists getting lazy.
It just
it just sounds like it just sounds like an opportunity for an artist to get lazy.
But Ne-Yo, when artists first experienced Pro Tools for the first time,
do you think that they had a similar reaction? Because...
I felt the same way. You did feel the same way.
I felt the same way about Pro Tools.
Again, there are people that spent years learning how to sing on key
and now anybody can sing on key at the push of a button.
Again, I'm not against technology.
I'm not even against AI.
AI is the next wave.
It's not going anywhere, I get it, I understand that.
I just need to know how I'm supposed to not feel threatened by a machine that’s
going to come in and try to take away what it is that I that that I do.
So let's take matrix out of the studio. Right.
So I'm getting that, you know, you're not a huge fan of having
AI really assist you in the studio just yet.
But let's think about performance because I know you are also very known
for your live performances.
You've had different versions of yourself that you've tapped into
for multiple albums. There have been multiple eras of Ne-Yo.
What if you wanted to do
sort of like a Ne-Yo eras show where it's you and then different versions of you,
and we've got those other versions that we're using AI in order to generate.
It could be cool, I guess.
For something like that.
Hold on! Did Ne-Yo just crack a little bit on AI?
No, I didn’t.
Because it’s, because it's still me.
I appreciate just you being genuine and open
and honest about AI, you know, and where you are right now in AI.
Because here's the thing, Ne-Yo,
I feel like if we do a follow up interview, like in a year or two,
a whole new song might be being sung, you may have, you may, you might.
You might.
I mean, you might be right, you might be wrong.
Well, I'm thankful that we've had the authentic Ne-Yo on here today at 100%.
It's been a real privilege to talk with you, man.
But I also hear that you've got a new tour coming on up.
So tell me a little bit about what we can look forward to with that.
Yes, indeed.
And it's really me, guys. It's no holograms.
It's me out there singing, dancing, sweating, being a whole human, all right?
Sharing emotions and passions with other human beings.
That's what it is. That's what my tour is.
We're in Australia right now.
It's the champagne and roses tour.
We go from Australia to Singapore to to Japan to China.
We go home for a minute for, you know, for Christmas and the holidays.
And then come to top of the year, Mary just announced it myself, Mary J.
Blige. Mario, we're going out again. Domestic.
We'll be in a city near you, and it'll be actually us.
It'll be actually as.
Well, to use one of your own words, it sounds as though the real
Ne-Yo is irreplaceable.
I like what you did there.
I like what you did there. I dig that.
I dig that.
Alright, so Ne-Yo obviously has some
legitimate concerns about how AI gets employed moving forward.
So let's talk to someone who's actively using it with artists.
Ed Ulbrich, Chief Content Officer at Metaphysic.ai.
Ed, welcome.
Hey, Albert, how are you?
I'm really excited to talk to you today.
Yeah. Me too. Glad to glad to be here with you.
So let's start off
by talking about your work as Chief Content Officer at Metaphysic.ai.
I know that you recently made Eminem a young Slim Shady again at the VMAs.
So did you do that just to help millennials like me not feel like
we're turning 40?
What I find fascinating is there's there are artists that are really leaning
in early into AI and, you know, you couldn't predict, but but,
you know, Marshall Mathers, and his team have been, seekers.
I would say they have been early. They have been pioneering.
They've been looking they've been, investigating.
What I love about this is seeing artists, you know, and I'm
I am blessed, we'll get to this,
but it's such a cool thing right now to be able to sit with great artists.
They see our technology through the lens of the creative problems
they're trying to solve in ways we would have never imagined.
And so it's just magic to see something.
They'll see it differently and find an application for it.
What I love about this particular project is it is using AI technology
magic, really in support of story and narrative and something bigger, right?
So it's not just a gimmick, it's it's sort of a through line
and it's something he's using in the work. And I think it's just brilliant.
And and I find what he's doing, it's very personal.
And he's using this technology in a way to express himself very personally,
which, was refreshing and surprising like that.
So to me, it's just like, what an honor, right?
To see people just harness this and just do amazing things.
And it blew up, obviously.
Yeah.
I mean, as a viewer, as a fan, you see it and you get chills.
So it is eliciting this very emotional reaction.
Absolutely. I mean, like I couldn't have said it better.
That is, the power of this is you stop looking at how it was made.
It just is, right?
And everything I've done for the 30 years prior, we're struggling to get past that,
you know, and hide it.
But, you know, these are very different tools we use now.
But Ed, I do want to know how it's made though.
So how does this technology even work like on a practical level,
how do you build a generative
AI program that can make someone come to life on stage?
Yeah.
Well, that's a that's a big question that we could
probably do a multi-part session on, with some people far smarter than me.
I would tell you, just in general, it's data science, right?
This is a fundamental shift from everything I've ever known.
And to be quite honest, two and a half years ago, two years ago,
I was introduced to a TikTok of deepfake Tom Cruise.
Right. So that was sort of like, wow.
And it was a friend.
And I'm coming from your high end visual effects, you know, from from doing,
you know, big, big, you know, Marvel movies and, and all that stuff.
And so we saw that was like, wait, what's that, right?
Now, at the same time, we'd
also seen deepfakes that were kind of ehh, and it's all sketchy and stuff.
But this just artistically being used
in a way to entertain and make people laugh and smile, but it was so well done.
So who's doing that? We were trying to figure it out.
So that ends up turning into a visual effects supervisor friend of mine
who does huge movies.
A guy named Kevin Bailey,
and he was working with Robert Zemeckis.
He's Robert Zemeckis’s visual effects supervisor for movie
after movie after movie.
He saw the potential taken from a TikTok
all the way to how you could deploy this on a major motion picture.
It's Here, H-E-R-E, Robert Zemeckis.
It's Tom Hanks and Robin Wright.
It's a beautiful, amazing, film
that, you know, otherwise likely couldn't have been made.
That's the one where it looks as though the entire movie
is shot from the exact same angle through time?
It is.
Nothing moves, but time, and time is moving constantly around this.
And and it settles into this, this family.
And it's just beautiful. And,
it is
such an extraordinary thing because this is a technology wonder.
I mean, a technological wonder, it is, an unbelievable undertaking.
And and yet it worked so well.
It was, really a game changer for me.
And so when I saw that, that from that TikTok to to getting to actually,
because I didn't work at Metaphysic at that time, right Metaphysic,
it just started, they'd done a screen test to,
get this project when I saw it, it was it was extraordinary.
I was both mind blown, like, oh, my God, that is amazing.
And at the same time, just like, oh my God, like that.
This is a profound quantum leap for me.
It was like
I could take everything I've ever known with the best people in the world
using those tools and deploy them against this, and we could never do that.
And then I found out it's rendered and done in real time.
As the actor’s performing, the AI I'm not, that's being driven in real time live.
And that was like, oh my God.
And immediately
I realized, like, over here I have horses and buggies and rocks and sticks,
and here these people have thermonuclear fusion and they're focusing it,
and they haven't even scratched the surface yet.
And so that's so I have, I'm all in.
Ed, you mentioned the term deepfake though.
And I know that that can be a very controversial term.
So where do you sit on that.
And how do you consider the work that you do as related to deepfake?
I hate that term.
I do, but I hate it for, it's words, it’s letters.
It's I think it comes from a bad place, right.
That, that that word that, that made up thing,
I think, and therefore it has a bad connotation in the culture.
That's not the tool.
That's the the people. Right.
Be real clear about that.
That same tool or tools like it or,
or methodologies utilizing data science in certain ways.
There are people doing extraordinary things like emotional,
moving humanity things using this technology.
So it's language.
I think it's a moment in this continuum of all things I can say in a few years
from now that what is will be we won't be talking about this anymore.
There'll be all kinds of brand new stuff to be dealt with.
Right?
I mean, because as empowering as this technology is,
we can both acknowledge that it doesn't come without pitfalls.
Absolutely.
Because, you know, there are artists who are worried
that they'll be impersonated by or replaced by AI.
So what are you doing in your work so that artists are building with AI?
Yeah. Oh, that's a big question.
It's a very important question.
We're like in the wild, wild west, right?
There's really no law and order yet.
It hasn't all been figured out. And so, you know.
Oh yes.
You know,
any technology in the wrong hands can be used for terrible things.
People see, like I told you, artists look at what we do, and magic happens
because they're seeing it through what they're trying to express and look
and try to apply it. And and from that comes all this magic.
But similarly, you know, other people can see things in a different way.
It comes down to access, which requires money.
There's still a barrier to entry.
Not to say that it's not that much money.
And some pretty extraordinary things can be done,
I would say from our perspective,
from my personal perspective also, and what I was drawn to
to join this company to take on this movie.
And now we've done three movies and we have all this amazing stuff is,
one is we're here to we've devoted ourselves to
we're helping save the world from boredom. Right.
That's our mission. Right?
So so that's our our purpose.
This is very much,
an entertainment endeavor currently.
We are a technology company that makes tools that we are expressing,
creatively in entertainment and doing so quite well.
That is, that is a whole, whole lot of fun.
At the same time, we're sort of in uncharted territory when we now
get to identity and likeness and those types of things.
Now, I will also tell you, because this old guy with the white hair
and has been doing this a very long time.
So we have been scanning famous actors and celebrities for 25 years.
Right.
We have been creating CG likenesses of them for,
you know, that long as well, to varying degrees of success.
So these are not new issues.
And it's funny because weirdly, what was it, in 2009,
I got to do a Ted talk after The Curious Case of Benjamin Button
talking about all these same issues, all these.
I got the questions at the end from from Chris Anderson.
So tell us what are the ethical implications?
And it was like this was what, 15 years ago.
And that is what’s interesting is we're having the same conversation now.
But there's a point on it and there's just a big, strike.
You know, as you recall, you know, the entire industry was shut down.
One of the foundational issues was AI.
It was also the same for the writers.
So it's a thing clearly, there's a lot of fear.
We had to look at this in a way like we have to behave ethically.
That's all you have to do is self-regulate
because there are no, we're in this time...
A guy I used to work with, at an ad agency a long time ago
named Rashad Tobacoala and
he has this great quote.
The future does not fit in the containers of the past.
Oh, hold on, let's say that again.
The future does not fit in the containers of the past.
I just I heard that it was like bullseye.
That for where I am right now, where we are right
now, that just says it all because we're applying
our usual thinking to this new thing and it doesn't fit.
This is brand new stuff.
So intellectual property law, identity, property sovereignty,
all these things like who owns what, how do I protect myself?
Like, as it turns out, you don't own a copyright of yourself,
right? You don't own yourself.
At least your images of yourself.
It's a complicated time.
So behaving ethically is sort of at the core.
And so I meet the founders of Metaphysic, and that's the first thing
out of their mouth is ethics first.
So, you know, that means you don't go scrape the internet, right?
That that means that we have to be secure.
We have to be confidential, you know, and there's there's a nice thing.
In Hollywood, there are standards and rules already that are pretty significant.
And for good reason.
Half of filmmaking that you see in theaters today,
you know, one half of it happens in like in a camera on a set.
The other half is happening in computers all around the planet.
So there are very strict security protocols, how things are done,
you know, so that exists, there's layers beyond that.
But we do believe, you know, people should own and control their data.
Let's dig even deeper into that thing with ethics and regulations,
because as you're saying, artists have a lot to gain with AI,
but there is a need for that protection.
You're building this content.
So as someone who's doing that,
how do you ensure the artists that they're safe to take the leap?
That’s a, it's consent, right. Yeah.
No consent, no AI.
Right, that's it.
We we build models, we train with
training data, we do data acquisitions, and we we...
And so all that needs to be if we're using existing materials,
that has to be licensed and cleared, right.
If you get no license, no clarity, no AI, that's just it.
We just you just have to set a standard for yourself
because currently they're not laws that are requiring us to do this.
But there will be there should be, they are coming, we hope.
They need to be
because of the other people that are using similar technologies
and having different ideas, and not here to help save the world from boredom
and make you smile or think.
But other agendas, right?
So there needs to be laws.
There need to be regulations.
In the meantime, we behave accordingly.
Look, I'm just thinking just off the top of my head,
off of the projects that you mentioned, you've had to convince or your company,
your team has had to convince, like Brad Pitt, Tom Hanks, Robin Wright,
these A-list stars to feel comfortable enough to give themselves on over to AI.
So just for fun, can you give me an elevator pitch in terms
of how do you convince somebody like that that they are safe to dive in?
There's a lot of education that that needs to happen.
I will also tell you, you know, you mentioned Brad Pitt, but,
you know, we just Brad Pitt back in 2008/9 when we were making Benjamin Button.
And by the way, that wasn't the first time he'd been scanned and done this either.
He's done this a lot. Right.
So when we work with some of these, you know, Tom Hanks is not,
new to the scanner, right?
I think the issue now is the it's the technology.
Right. Quite, quite honestly,
it's it's not that we couldn't create capture likenesses and have data of them.
It was just, you know, if you wanted to do anything, it was damn expensive, right?
Because it took a lot of people, you know, in buildings around the world.
But, you know, today, you know, it's very different.
There's incredibly powerful technology.
It's accessible and it's it's going so fast.
And I would say in many cases it's education is what's missing, right?
It's moving so fast that there is no way to educate fast enough.
And if people aren't leaning in
and trying and paying attention and kind of jumping into it,
it just it's just sailing past them.
And so, that's what I see.
I have a lot of people, you know, you guys are, you know, eliminating jobs.
You're it's a revolution.
It's like, well,
I don't I've never considered myself a revolutionist, you know, I've heard this.
I'm old. Right?
30 years ago, when we started Digital Domain in Venice, California,
one of the co-founders, James Cameron, Scott Ross, Stan
Winston, these are, you know, major people in visual effects and entertainment.
And obviously James Cameron,
my hero,
you know, and and this company,
launches and we are like, we are all digital.
It was all CGI, right?
Well, there was an outrage, right?
People were like, you're going to put people,
you know, motion control cameramen and model
makers and miniatures and pyrotechnics, scenic painters and matte painters.
You're going to put us all out of work and it was like, well,
that wasn't the intent, but there's just new tools, right?
You know, it’s kind of undeniable.
And I remember coming into the studio one day, you know,
28 years old, and there's picketers around us,
and there wasn't even a labor union strike.
It was just people like,
you know, in the industry, it was like that was really like, wow, this is crazy.
Like it's we're just do it. And to me, it's just CGI, right.
Well, cut to, you know, here we are.
That industry, you know, exploded massively after that,
after the dawn of CGI in the late 90s, you saw the jobs grow by the thousands.
There are now tens and tens and, you know, there are,
we created tens of thousands of jobs coming out of that.
Yeah.
As a result of that shift in, in the, in the use of technology proliferated
and we start to see morphing shifting to digital to the point
where half of the movie is made in the computer now.
I mean, that's just that's just where it's at.
So still very, very, very, very expensive, very, very, very slow.
You know,
people don't realize that there's like a thousand people working on a movie.
Let's talk about the potential that I'm thinking about, you know, young
filmmakers out there, young artists or even as big name artists.
Can you talk to us about how I can be used
as a creativity amplifier rather than a shortcut?
Amen. That's it. It’s an amplifier.
It is that I say it's like it's jet fuel for creativity.
I would say, you know, it's an exciting time.
It really you look at like this it we've seen disruption, right?
I saw the CGI disruption.
And then within that we saw all these things happening as humans and,
and game engines.
And so, you know, it's exploded.
And then I see this test for this movie and it was like,
you know, stops you dead in your tracks for this movie Here.
Right.
It's just like, oh, everything changes with that.
That moment was just like,
you know, you can't go back and then you start to go forward
and you realize, like, I'm just now learning.
So many people are doing so many exciting things.
Right?
And so I think it's it's like lean in.
I tell a lot of people, like,
you know what do you recommend to visual effects artists today?
It's like, look up, everyone's very busy looking down.
Just look up because few people know what we're doing even.
It's like there's so much stuff going on, like get into it.
The other thing is it's a transfer of skill, right?
And what I'm seeing, and this is so wonderful,
it's like people who make visual effects in large visual effects
that what they bring is not necessarily I know how to use this software
or that software. That's really not what's important.
It's the eye, it's the attention to detail.
It's the ability to articulate in language,
visual things explicitly right to someone else, to code
something in a way that explicitly results
in something that is, you know, very precisely, controlled.
Right. That's that's what it's about.
So those people who are facial animators
and modelers and compositors, doing traditional visual,
they're taking to AI generative AI like a duck to water.
It is just it's wonderful to see because the ones who just are
that's really like, if you're a seeker, if you're passionate
and you see this stuff, it's like,
oh my God, this just unlocks so much more that I can do.
You know, I've seen people that enjoy what they're doing now.
I am at a place like I'm having fun again.
I have not said that for a very long time, by the way,
but it really is extraordinary to see this.
And so, look, are things changing? Yes.
You know, will job skills change? Yes.
You know, will certain functions and tasks go away? Yes.
Will new things emerge? Absolutely.
And they're happening every day.
We are not even scratching the surface of what this stuff can do, right?
Creatively. And and that's also what's exciting about it.
And other people are making incredibly exciting tools as well.
And when you start to see creatives now rise up and start to be able to work
across a panel of just powerful things,
we are going to start to
see some things in the world pretty soon that are going to be extraordinary.
You you mentioned scratching the surface.
We've only begun to scratch it.
But then where should we draw the line?
You know, when using generative AI to create digital versions of people,
whether they're real or fictional, how do we create the parameters?
Well, that's a tough thing to talk to an artist about.
I don't know, I always try to just go out of the lines, right?
I don't I don't know that the I think the, the lines are, law and order.
I think there is, you know, public decency.
There is kind of kind of some moral,
ethical obligation to not poisoning people's minds.
That's, you know, we're seeing increasingly difficult.
I don't know that there, I would look at that in this sort in that way.
I, I look at this is,
you know, at a certain point, you know, change is the only constant.
It's inevitable.
We are going through it constantly, it’s just happening a lot faster right now.
I don't ever think about drawing lines and like, clinging to the past like,
Oh, no, I'm staying here.
It's like, no, I'm jumping in like, so.
So this is going to go to another place I think we're going to go to.
Formats are going to change for sure.
Distribution channels absolutely will change
because they already change anyway constantly.
So that's that's just ever changing distribution.
New business models are emerging all over the place.
I think the supply chain that creates content in the world right now, right now,
classic Hollywood, great content, Madison Avenue advertising, great quality
content is going to go through a renaissance.
But it is going to be very disruptive.
Because it's on, game on right now.
And I think you're going to start to see creativity surge.
I'm seeing it already. Well with that creativity surging.
I know the huge creative potential is one thing,
but what are the more sinister implications of this, Ed?
You know, again, person dating a major celebrity is over here.
You know, the deepfake that we talked about before, that's one thing.
But thinking about security, government, global business,
that's where this can really get scary. What are your thoughts on that?
Well, I'm not an expert on this.
And I, for my own mental health, try not to, you know doom spiral?
Very often.
Sometimes it is very difficult.
I'm clearly aware of the power of media and its impact.
I also have, you know, I have, teenagers,
you know, I'm, you know, the living focus group for some of this.
I do think ethical and moral guardrails are important.
There's horrible things, right.
And it isn't necessarily just for the kind of AI is like science.
I mean, it's just it's just a vast spectrum of different things.
We're one slice of that.
But but similar things in that slice, you know,
you can take any of these tools and, and, you know, have medical breakthroughs.
You know, we've seen we've seen that, science breakthrough,
research breakthrough.
Yeah.
Just but at the same time, you know, there's, there's that other of that
other world and, and that's the super evil version of thing.
But okay, now we get guardrails.
Guardrails are absolutely necessary, very important here.
But let's bring it back to the good, which is the space where you really seem
to thrive.
You're coming at this from a very virtuous space, Ed.
So as you're saying,
what are you most excited about for this technology going forward?
What's AI realism going to be like five years from now?
I'm all about directors,
directors, production designers, visual effects supervisors.
You know that the people who make worlds and images and characters and people.
So to me, that's super exciting and fun. That always has been.
But putting these tools in those hands,
that is just mind blowing and and I am, I, you know, super fortunate,
very lucky guy to be able now to sit with, like, my heroes,
like people that to me
are some of the world's greatest filmmakers, like major people
that are seeking this out, that are interested, that are
and to just see what they're doing with it is just like, God, that's incredible.
That's what is exciting.
And seeing it change so fast and seeing someone grab it
and use it this way, and someone else grab it and use it that way.
And us helping enable that.
And through that, innovation comes.
So there is something incredibly intoxicating
about that spirit of innovation.
That's where we're at is it just unlocks the creative, you know, self blockers.
Right. And and it's fun. It's fun.
What a fantastic conversation this was.
We were just so thrilled to have you.
So I also want to give you this chance to talk about anything else
that you want the people who are listening to go check out.
What are you working on? Well, go see Here.
An amazing film, incredible story, moving, powerful,
beautifully executed and proud to have been a part of it.
And then, you know, the new stuff I can't tell you about.
But stay tuned. Watch this space.
You know, ramping, we’re in production right now on a colossal, epic undertaking.
And, you know, this coming this fall.
Watch this space as well, not just in the movie theaters.
You know, with Marshall Mathers you know, we did the first live
generative AI on live television on the VMAs.
So that's in the world now. That's a thing.
And so as we go forward, just keep your eye out.
You're going to see some really fun stuff coming this fall.
You know, in, film and television and, and advertising,
you're going to see some, some fun, some very fun stuff.
As we come into the big, media holiday season.
Friends, that's it for today's episode of AI and action.
And I know that you all learned a ton from that one, so please stay
tuned here for more and we'll see you back here again very, very soon.